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Frostys Virpio
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356
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Posted - 2013.04.05 19:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
No More Heroes wrote:GetSirrus wrote:oh really and how much player activity is behind moon mining? I spent much of last summer and fall helping my alliance do some moon mining By capturing a little region called Tribute and Vale of the Silent all the while defending moons in Venal
You also "aquired" the belts in Tribute and Vale of the Silent with the same man hours and you defended the belts in Venal. That fact that this is overlooked does not mean it can avoided. It's definately not the miner's fault if the ressource he's gathering is seen as unworthy to fight for like moons are. If they were worth the same, you would not mention the time it takes to conquer/defend moons in null because it would be irrevelent since it would be shared. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
356
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 19:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Lady Ayeipsia wrote:La Nariz wrote:
That depends you can feel free to debate what the original intended gameplay of trading, moonmining and other activities in another thread. This one is for debating the gray area around AFK mining.
You still have yet to prove there is a gray area around afk mining or that afk mining permits one to gain isk at an accellerated rate. So really, until that is accomplished, we can bring any factor we wish to this debate. You are incorrect I have highlighted a gray area in the EULA in the OP and am asking for CCP clarification.
It's only a gray area if they do aquire currency at an accelerated peace. It does not because there is literraly no difference in the amount aquired if you were to look at your laser or not. You can let the laser cycle while at the keyboard just like you can let them cycle and go take a dump, make a sammich or post on SA. That part of the EULA is there to block bot as it can amke more action that require being at the keyboard such as docking or moving the content of the ore bay to another container, be it a ship or a can. This cannot be done AFK unless there is a bot running. The bot is gaining more than a regular pattern of play because he does not have to do the action himself. The afk is only letting the action finish. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
356
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 19:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:
Not that I think he is saying that... but it would definitely lend credit to being hardcore that's for sure. Would also eliminate a lot of the problems many threads are complaining about. Not to mention making risk vs reward a reality. In all elements.
Risk vs reward would be exactly the same. Time vs reward would be the one thing changing. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
356
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 20:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:
Not that I think he is saying that... but it would definitely lend credit to being hardcore that's for sure. Would also eliminate a lot of the problems many threads are complaining about. Not to mention making risk vs reward a reality. In all elements.
Risk vs reward would be exactly the same. Time vs reward would be the one thing changing. Except the rate at which those titans were built would require a LOT more effort on the parts of the alliances to defend them at the price of all those people needing to log in, not just for reinforce timers while they play on different pilots. It would require a TON more time (yep time) and at keyboard effort and attention to accomplish it all. That time is the risk in the game of timers.
An afk builder would still produce jsut as fast as an offline player right now. There is no added risk unless they cahnge what need to be done to stop the production, in this case, destroying the production facility. You could AFK build in the same "secure" space as you offline build right now. The timers would still be on the tower to prevent them from being sneak-killed just like right now. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
357
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 20:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
No More Heroes wrote:I Love Boobies wrote:Harvesting Moon Goo is the ultimate AFK mining. Dunno what the OP is complaining about, with the alliance he is in and so on.  Ah yes, except that aside from the initial effort required to capture and setup the pos and arrays, we have enemies. The local Venal residents like to shoot our moons, they can be reinforced in one seige cycle by a dreadnought group. We must form up 256 dudes in battleships with logi and recon support when this happens. Every time. The enemy sees our overwhelming force and doesnt show up. We rep our pos. Life goes on. If we dont form up this overwhelming force each and every time, our enemies may overcome a smaller force and capture our moon. Peace through superior fire-power. So you see- despite the highsec narrative of afk income from passive moon mining, it is quite labor-intensive having these moons. Its not like highsec where you put down your pos 4 jumps from Jita and everyone leaves it alone. And a magical NPC army spawns and destroys anyone who shoots it lest they be paid a fee.
Then make moon harvested by a special type of ships. It will put moon mining on an equal footing as rock mining for time requirement. The yields and possibility of depletion per server cycle can be adjusted like asteroid belt to prevent player really having to be online 23.5/7 to get the same return as a tower currently.
When this si done, we will even have worked out part of the "work the fields" that should be done in Null. How is that idea? |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
357
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 20:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:
i dread to think how many people would strongly risk being banned just to bot through something that ********.
Everybody would only fly in destroyer because you can recycle alts after running all the available military training that give you them for free. New player system would litteraly be flodded with alts doing the same 4 mission for the free dessy. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
357
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 20:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Tippia wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Time investment on a player level is irrelevant. They both perform the same ingame actions at the same rate with player B having their character active longer thus reaping more reward. If you were trying to argue that playing longer was somehow an exploit you could use this argument, but trying to equate AFK'ing to botting doesn't work with this reasoning. ^^ This. Player A's decision to babysit his mining ship for whatever reason does not make Player B's decision not to do that into something prohibited. I disagree time investment matters in an activity such as this. Hence the difference in rates.
Just like multiboxing, the player time investement is calculated on how much time the capsuler was in game, not how many hours was spent at the keyboard giving commands. It's the same hole in the net that admit both. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
357
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 20:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:La Nariz wrote:Tippia wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Time investment on a player level is irrelevant. They both perform the same ingame actions at the same rate with player B having their character active longer thus reaping more reward. If you were trying to argue that playing longer was somehow an exploit you could use this argument, but trying to equate AFK'ing to botting doesn't work with this reasoning. ^^ This. Player A's decision to babysit his mining ship for whatever reason does not make Player B's decision not to do that into something prohibited. I disagree time investment matters in an activity such as this. Hence the difference in rates. Time investment of the character is what matters. If that character is sitting at a belt after having activated their miners/harvesters on a valid target they have performed the only activity needed to reap the yield of that resource up to the capacity of that resource or the capacity of their ship. This is the design of mining. The ingame investment of the AFK player in your scenario is greater, thus they reap the greater reward. They still accrued reward at the same rate. See this is where everything hinges and CCP will have to step in to tell us what's what. You are claiming that the AFK miner invests more time for more resources. I am claiming that because they are not playing the game and the game is essentially playing itself the AFK miner invests less time but receives more resources.
They accept multiboxing even if the number of man hours at the keyboard is lower than it should require by singla players. They can't really dissalow afk mining with all the well known limitation making it much less profitable/efficient than multiboxing.
Off work now so no more posting ... |
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